Talk:Dizzy

Sol

There is currently no proof or evidence whatsoever that he is the father. Currently there is no very little mention of who the father is. We do not go by "rumors" or fan speculation. Ryu Heishin 05:25, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Though after we clean up the pages and make up a template for them, we can add it to the trivia section at the end if someone wishes to put it in the wiki THAT badly. Other then that, even the most hardset fan speculation belongs outside a trivia or the discussion. Piconoe 05:48, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

The practice usually is to put separate discussion page about Dizzy's father, but I will permit a mention in the trivia section. The implications that Sol is Dizzy's father is not as strong as fans claim to be. The GGXX ending is the strongest argument but there are a lot of things tp be considered like Dizzy being canonically half-human and half-Gear when Justice is her mother. Also, they share some suggestive official art.

Danseru-kun (talk) 13:38, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I still believe Sol is Dizzy's father. It's the only thing that is plausible. I hope information come out that will straighten out who's the father. Dizzy is half-human and half-gear. The father has to be human (or part human). Xrd is coming out soon and hopefully will reveal some truths and revelations.

Jlee1 (talk) 16:25, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

The father would have to be purely human, as Justice is purely Gear. He could not be half human, for example, because that would make Dizzy three-fourths Gear and one-fourth human. Kyro-Dizzy (talk) 17:40, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

It's also not clear whether Dizzy is a biological offspring of Justice, the Maiden of the Grove in GG2 is called "Justice's backup" so it's also possible she's a clone with human components. There is nothing saying that she has a father, so she could be purely synthetic.

Danseru-kun (talk) 02:19, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

We cannot make a conclusion until we know what Dizzy is. She is a half-gear, half human who was 3 years old in GGX, her magic rings has both the Outrage, Gear symbol and her name and she was called "Justice's backup" in the Japanese version. Just because Sol has fatherly feelings towards her it doesn't mean it's an objective evidence that he's her biological father. It's better to be skeptical than list speculation, no matter how logical it is, then get proven wrong. Years ago, Raven's line when meeting Axl somewhat sparked the theory that they are parellel existences but the recent interviews with Daisuke shows this might not be the case.

Foreshadowing has "fore" because of the reason it's meant to cater to a bigger revelation, which hasn't happened yet.

Danseru-kun (talk) 23:58, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

I still believe Sol is Dizzy's father -Jlee1 (talk) 01:20, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it still hasn't been confirmed Sol is the father because we don't understand the nature of Dizzy's "birth". Yes, Sol and Aria were lovers, but Aria passed away and so Justice is not the original. And it makes no sense that Justice would have an offspring to Sol 100 years after the former was created. At most I would say this is a "heavily suggested" matter, rather than say he is definitely the father. Kyro-Dizzy (talk) 02:39, August 9, 2017 (UTC) Edit: I see that change was reverted anyway. But I suppose this argument can stand for future reference until such time as Arc System Works answers this matter. Kyro-Dizzy (talk) 02:47, August 9, 2017 (UTC)

Sol, Dizzy's father?

Yes. Yes he is. Guilty Gear Revelator says so. Ky is Sol's son in law. Type that into youtube.

Yeah I agree as well. "When Dizzy is defeated by Sol, she screams out Oto-san which in japanese means father." .... look here. If anything it means Sol`s father, not hers. Devilmanozzy (Talk Page) 21:53, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Or she's calling out for her father to save her from the mean man she never met before that's beating her up. See? I can speculate, too. Piconoe 18:52, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

I'm still sticking with Sol being Dizzy's dad. -Jlee1 (talk) 09:54, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Dizzy in other games/franchises

Dizzy also has her own gamebook in Queen's Gate (a Lost Worlds style gamebook series), and is a playable party member in "Queen's Gate: Spiral Chaos" (a PlayStation Portable tactics game). Not sure what's the best way to incorporate these info. -208.185.244.250 23:12, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, it's already in the article, I didn't notice it at first. -208.185.244.250 23:13, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Dizzy's Gameplay

I think we ought to mention that she has one of the highest damage multipliers in the game and that she is also easy to dizzy. So I think "good defense" may not be accurate.

Danseru-kun 00:24, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Miaden is Dizzy

The 10th memorial book of Guuilty Gear confirms that Dizzy is the Maiden of the Grove.Gamma Venom 567 (talk) 04:42, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

Technically, the 10th memorial book doesn't confirm that Dizzy is the Maiden, it simply connects Ky and Dizzy with a heart symbol and described them as having a "deep connection." This case is treated like Faust and Dr. Baldhead whereas it's quote obvious that they're the same person but there is really nothing that outright says they are. It's more fun this way.

Danseru-kun (talk) 12:30, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Did you see the date where it's posted? It's 2012 and that means it's before Xrd and VastEdge are announced and way before Ky's short story was translated. Now we have enough facts to merge The Maiden's and Dizzy's articles together.

Danseru-kun (talk) 23:53, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

Birthday

I'm not sure how much of the game is considered canon due to multiple inconsistencies and its status as a spin-off, but in Guilty Gear Dust Strikers, her profile states that her birthday IS December 25, without any doubtful or uncertain notes.

Kyro-Dizzy (talk) 18:36, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's still safe to use her GGX and Accent Core profiles that hints her birthday as uncertain, I would take that as "higher canon." Canon information can have layers an hierarchy so it's better to take the most reliable sources.

Danseru-kun (talk) 01:03, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Dizzy in Xrd

She's probably gonna be in the console version. I hope her 3D form is worth it. -Jlee1 (talk) 02:15, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

She is in story mode and a non-playable character. I enjoyed the family reunion (sob, sob). -Jlee1 (talk) 03:12, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

I hope that she will be included in the roster in future updates since Daisuke has talked about gradually including other GG characters as playable characters, possibly as DLC. -User:Nitro Gig

So, according to an interview by Daisuke Ishiwari translated from Gear Project, Daisuke is either working on an expansion for Xrd or he's working on the next GG title for 2015. Nitro Gig (talk) 16:15, January 3, 2015 (UTC)Nitro Gig

Guilty Gear Codex

Weird, all the comments on here that were criticizing the attitudes of the people running this page were deleted.  Now only all the cronyistic and hug-box comments remain.  Why aren't they around?  People were called to task over their horrible management of this page, and their adamant refusal to add in relevant information to an informational page.  Apparently things that are frequently hinted at aren't worth a mention.  Only things that are 100% confirmed.  It's like the opening phrase "It has been hinted that..." doesn't exist in our language, because every mention of this phrase on the page gets deleted.  Much like the talk section did.  But I suppose one good delete can help hide the shame, is that it?

Also, according to the lovely hardcover codex that comes with the Limited Edition box of Xrd:  "Justice's original body was that of a human woman, who gave birth to Dizzy before she was converted."  So correct, Dizzy is Half-Gear.  From her father's side.  And from the same material, and from Xrd's in-game database, Justice was Gear-ified in 2073, about 100 years before the events of the games.  So what Gear was made before Justice? That would make it a Gear that she couldn't control.  Oh, right, both of these would describe Sol.  You know, Sol Badguy.  That guy that was frequently hinted to be Dizzy's father, which everyone who's played Story Mode picks up on.

So please, adamant defenders of not including information on an encyclopedia, feel free to start a section on the hints and connections.  There are many.  You can start with the above.  And also add in all the ones mentioned in the comments that have been deleted.  And don't forget to add that Sol's Dragon Install and Dizzy's Necro Install are amazingly similar in both execution and results, and that Sol's gear form seen during Order Sol's IK has wings and a tail, and also looks remarkably like Dizzy's gear form seen during her IK.

So like always, feel free to start bickering about how you can't add this information to the page until it's been written on a giant neon sign in front of your face.  Or just delete this comment, because that seems to be the norm around here anyway whenever the people disagree with the extremely small number of obsessive moderators.

Anyway, I'm done doing your job for you.  The rest is up to you, to put this on the wiki page.  This is your mistake, apparently due to a surprising level of willful ignorance, and it's about high-time the defense brigade here owned up to it and took responsibility.  There is no excuse for not including information on a Wiki.

BigEgosLoveCensoring (talk) 19:56, January 3, 2015 (UTC)

It's hilarious that you say that and yet, in that very same Codex on page 62, it also states "Dizzy is something of a miracle--the result of a union between a human and a Gear. In the console version, she refers to Justice as "Mother". Making clear where the Gear portion of her ancestry originates from. But her father is still a mystery." Keep in mind that I am stating this word for word from the Codex.

And here's another kicker: If Dizzy was born before Justice's conversion, Why does she retain more of her mother's techniques(AFTER her conversion) than her supposed father's? How is she a Command-Type Gear like her mother(if she, again, was born before Aria became the Archetype of Justice), when her father was an experimental prototype. And why is she specifically referred to as "Justice's backup/reproduction?" Especially in Guilty Gear XX and Accent Core, where it is even further implicated that she somehow retains Justice's memories when she encounters a hologram of Order-Sol and meets Eddie? And where was she during the +100 years after Aria's conversion and why did she only emerge three years after Justice was killed in the first Guilty Gear? Hate to tell you, but these are very plot revelent questions and mysteries that are not going to be handwaved away, especially when the developers are highlighting them as important details in the Codex and Library.

And her having Necro Install doesn't imply anything. Ky, in Guilty Gear Isuka, has a move called "Lightning Install". Does that make him Sol's child too?

It's cute how you'll ridicule others of willful ignorance yet you exhibit it shamelessly by forcefully ignoring a great deal of evidence that opposes your personal fan theory that only has two negligible pieces to support it. And yes, Wikis don't go by hints. This is a guideline that originates in Wikipedia and Wikis generally uphold that.

So, when the story, guidebooks or Daisuke Ishiwari himself tells us straight out that Sol is the father and gives us an explanation on HOW he is the father, you can sit back in your petty self-satisfaction and laugh at us. Until that time, whine somewhere else.

And yes, your comments are deleting not because your theories (in case you haven't noticed comments about the Sol/Dizzy connection on other posts haven't been omitted), but because the tone in your posts has been nothing but belligerent, demeaning and condescending to other wiki editors, including the moderators and administrators. You want to express your opinion, then stop being so needlessly disrespectful. Danseru-kun (talk) 16:10, January 3, 2015 (UTC)Danseru-kun

I added back in the topic starter, just for you.  Lest it look like you're talking to yourself.  And sorry, so I guess YOUR demeaning and insulting posts can remain, but those of others have to be removed.  For the greater good?

The previously deleted comments were not "my posts", they were posts by many different people.  In case you haven't noticed, many people, not necessarily dedicated Wiki editors like yourself, want this information in the Wiki.  It seems that YOU are trying to push your own beliefs over those of many others.

And I'm not going to respond to your wall of information, because frankly, it's not important. Yes, there are many things that the GG universe has not explained.  Dizzy only being 3 years old, for instance, is weird no matter when you assume she was born.  It either happened 100 years ago, or while Justice was in another dimension. 

But nitpicking like this is irrelevant.  All we have to do is state what DID happen.  And what HAS happened are many stated implications that Sol may be Dizzy's father.  Why, exactly, do you persist so hard in not mentioning those facts? Here, I'll get it started for you:

Possible father:

While Dizzy's father has not been outright stated, there have been many subtle hints that it may be Sol, which has caused many fans to assume that it is him.  These include:

- Sol spares her life and sees her off safely after GGX.

- Dizzy's mentions feeling a strong warm familiar connection when Sol is rescuing her.

- May says something about if she's thinking about her father after Sol drops her off.

- Dizzy literally says "father" when fighting Sol.

- Dizzy and Sol share similar moves.

And of course, the one you conveniently didn't feel like mentioning above when you addressed the Installs:

- Dizzy and Sol have nearly identical-looking unleashed Gear versions.

Oh, and then there's the entire thing about Sol's ex-lover Aria very likely being the original basis for Justice.  But that's not been outright stated!  Better not ever mention that Aria might be Justice!

Anyway, this has absolutely nothing to do with "pushing my theory". I do not care one lick who Dizzy's father is.  If it turns out to be Faust, or something, then I won't care in the least.  And what DOES bother me, is that information exists, that many GG fans are aware of from playing the games, that you don't want to include on the Wiki page.  The purpose of this page is to concisely inform people who have not gotten an opportunity to dig through the main sources.

It's very simple: Add a section that Sol might possibly be Dizzy's father.  Provide the facts, and reasons why this belief persists.  And if it's somehow later proven to be wrong, update it with the new information.  This isn't difficult.

Or maybe you just want another debacle like the "Maiden of the Grove" article. Just the mere fact that it existed was hilarious enough, when all it really needed to be was a footnote on Dizzy's article about possible connections.  And come to think of it, ALL that article did was speculate on who the "Maiden" is.  It was exactly like what you should add about Dizzy's father.  The facts about the possible reasons why it could be him.

Oh, and by the way, you are absolutely wrong that Wikis do not include hinted information.  Try it yourself:

http://i.imgur.com/4xF0tGR.png

When something is hinted at, that makes it a FACT that it was hinted at by the author.  Get it?  Whether that hint is notable or not is another story, but in this case Dizzy's father is quite relevant to the topic of her article.

And if you think people are being disrepectful to the mods, try thinking harder about what they're doing to deserve it.  This is supposed to be an open source of information, and not one merely run by the person with the most time and dedication and email-alerts.  Perhaps you should distance yourself from this project and let other people add in what the people want to see.

BigEgosLoveCensoring (talk) 19:56, January 3, 2015 (UTC)

Willful deletion of Revelator story mode information.

It seems that editor Ryu Heishin have been disruptively reverting people's edits with no explanation of why he feels the need to do so.  No less than THREE separate editors have attempted to describe a scene from the Story Mode of Relevator, all of which he reverted entirely, without reason.

The scene in question is a conversation which starts with Sin asking Sol about his relation to Dizzy, and ends with Sol and Ky yelling loudly in horror upon realizing that this makes them technically family now.  This scene occurs in the game, and is relevant to the identity of the character upon which this article is about.  The scene is easily verifiable, and absolutely belongs as a part of this Wiki.  There can be no question about this.  If you wish to describe this scene differently, please add your edits and let everyone know.

The other part of the disruptive edits, which I suspect is the real material he finds objectionable, is that the scene implies that Sol is Dizzy's father.  Looking through the talk section, you can see several people disputing the odd choice from a handful of dedicated editors to not include any mention that this has been hinted at multiple times in the GG universe.

As the editor above me has mentioned on this Talk page, and I agree with, there is absolutely no reason why a canonical source that hints at something cannot have a mention that the canonical source hinted at something.  Even if the hint turns out to be ultimately untrue, the source still states it, and it will serve as a good reminder for future editors that the information from this source was later retconned.

Ryu Heishin, as for yourself, understand that a Wiki page is a collaborative effort.  If you cannot work with other editors, and lack the ability to explain why you believe they are wrong, then you should remove yourself from the community.  Your own personal agenda does not weigh higher than the opinions of several other people, no matter how much more frequently or obsessively you check the page.  And if this hurts your pride to hear this, or to admit to yourself that you might be wrong, then good.  An important part of being a grown adult is admitting that you made a mistake, so consider this a learning experience. 

CommonlyKnownInformationMissing (talk) 03:51, July 21, 2016 (UTC)